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yellownotepad said:
what the fuck???? why would there even be a debate on banning him??!!

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yellownotepad said:
it doesnt work like that.  someone who is into CP doesn't have a concept of boundaries....or they wouldnt be into CP.  letting him post here is tantamount to condoning his behavior when it is something this vile.  while generally speaking its proper to tolerate those different than you, exploiting defenseless creatures like children and animals is inexcusable and not something to be tolerated by anyone, especially not a forum dedicated to activity that is already walking the line.

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zippo420 said:


Maybe they are into child porn because they were sexual abused? Or had sexual experiences at a young age.

Could be anything, I wouldnt get mad at these people, not always their fault. Being human we're pretty fucked up to start with. And morals arent universal, everyone is different and every culture

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zippo420 said:

Maybe they are into child porn because they were sexual abused? Or had sexual experiences at a young age.

Could be anything, I wouldnt get mad at these people, not always their fault. Being human we're pretty fucked up to start with. And morals arent universal, everyone is different and every culture

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ezKiel said:
Morals aren't universal but fucked up shit is.

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andyistic said:
The fact is - every time he posts, it's either child porn or his lust for Asian women.

Sure, the Asian women posts maybe be harmless, but they do get annoying after awhile.
His child porn posts are a major threat to this site's operation, however.

If he were to return, there's no doubt that he would continue to do these posts.
Why take that chance? Let him find some other site to do that shit.

It doesn't matter if you personally feel that child porn is OK.
That fact is - it's against the law, and can be used against us.

Allowing him to come back is not a good idea.
Any ideas to the contrary should be tossed.

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Sativus said:
There's a tribe where the pre-adolescent boys perform fellatio on the adult males.  They believe that you need to consume enough semen to become a man.  Once the child hits puberty, they know he's had enough semen.

While we would generally consider this sexual abuse, they see it in a very different cultural light.

Not justifying pedophilia or anything, just thought that was germane to zippo's point.

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Doitagain said:
i am sure that form the pre-adolescent boys point of view its an absolutely disgusting and nightmarish experience.

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Sirius said:

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Doitagain said:
i am sure that form the pre-adolescent boys point of view its an absolutely disgusting and nightmarish experience.

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What are you basing that on, but your own preconceptions, formed from your own cultural conditioning?

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Sirius said:
Why wouldn't it be? Is sucking cocks inherently unpleasant?

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Sativus said:
Yeah, I gotta gree with Sirius.  No matter how revoltingly unpleasant the idea of sucking a cock is based on our cultural conditioning, I can't imagine that's universal.  What is and isn't taboo, acceptable, etc. varies a lot in different societies.

I think it's pretty fucking disgusting and inhuman that we seek out indigenous people whose land we can use for resources, and whose people we can use as capital.  To me, that seems utterly wrong and morally reprehensible. America feels differently.

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yellownotepad said:
there are also cultures that practice female castration.  is it just my cultural conditioning to be against that? i think not.

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yellownotepad said:
when someone is too young, too handicapped, too submissive, or too afraid, or otherwise unable to say yes or no, that is when it is wrong.

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Sativus said:

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yellownotepad said:
when someone is too young, too handicapped, too submissive, or too afraid, or otherwise unable to say yes or no, that is when it is wrong.

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It was in the Melanesian culture area—encompassing  Papua-New Guinea—where, well into the 20th century, the erotic—in fact homoerotic—energy of male initiation was perhaps most clearly evident (Tejirian, 1990). There, transactions of semen between older and younger males were a pervasive feature of male initiation. Living in proximity with adolescent boys, it was necessary that they perform fellatio on the older, sexually mature boys since it was thought that only by the ingestion of semen on a regular basis would they be able to mature sexually themselves.

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Sativus said:
So we shouldn't breastfeed babies because they're incapable of making informed decisions? Great logic.

That's why I call it mindless reductionism.

Come on man, you're not stupid, you got a 1450 sat score.  The fact that I have 40 points on you shouldn't mean my points fly over your head.

No where did I say I agree with female circumcision.  But to say that my disapproval isn't culturally-founded is rediculous.

All I'm saying is that he's grossly misconstruing the issue and throwing up straw men.

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Doitagain said:
granted my part of my objection is cultural but in the case of female circumcision i think that crosses an ethical line that goes beyond just cultural differences, though it they are a factor obviously.

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yellownotepad said:
with the arguments being made in this thread you could say rape is ok in cultures that allow it.

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If you're referring to my arguments, then this is just your misinterpretation. I am not advocating any outlook on any matter, simply recognizing the nature of reality.

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Sativus said:

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ezKiel said:
Morals aren't universal but fucked up shit is.

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Then how do you respond to the tribe of cocksucking preteens?

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ezKiel said:

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Sativus said:

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ezKiel said:
Morals aren't universal but fucked up shit is.

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Then how do you respond to the tribe of cocksucking preteens?

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I respond by pointing out there are something like 7 billion people in the world.

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...ok?

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I never said fucked up shit didn't happen. Just that it was still fucked up.

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You have zero reading comprehension, don't you?

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Doitagain said:
alright well basically a coerced procedure that takes away the pleasure of sex for a woman is committing a transgression against another human being.

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Sativus said:
Care to back that up with reasoning instead of emotionalism?

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Sativus said:
Not well enough.  There's still too many child-circumsizing Jews still running around for yellownotepad's taste.

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Sativus said:
Unless they're voluntarily entering into our global community, then I don't see what right we have to put an end to their culture (or at least the aspects which we disapprove of).

The idea of basic human rights arose in Enlightenment-era Europe.  It forms the basis for evaluating what is and isn't acceptable in the global community, and appears to be your basis for judging as well.  The UN and Amnesty International both operate under the presumption of basic human rights.

But a culture which is not voluntarily engaged in our experiment in global community shouldn't be bound by our mutual agreements of what is/isn't acceptable.  That's called totalitarianism.

If we have the right to do that, why don't they have the right to attack us to put an end to our cult over overpopulation?

"Universal morality" is an oxymoron.  We can have a universally accepted morality within our community.  But to say that our agreement upon a standard of ethics gives us the right to attack an independent civilization that has a different set of morality, that just doesn't work for me.  The issue is more complicated than that.

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Sativus said:

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Doitagain said:
alright well basically a coerced procedure that takes away the pleasure of sex for a woman is committing a transgression against another human being.

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And transgressions against other human beings are inherently wrong? 

I'd like to point again to our culturally-sanctioned raping and pillaging of the third world.  That's a serious transgression against millions of other human beings.  Looks pretty fucking fucked up to me.  But our cultural consensus encourages this activity as not only necessary, but as serving the ultimate force of good (the economy).

Think about killing, for another good example.  We generally consider the taking of other human life to be wrong (unless they happen to be brown and in an oil-rich country, but that's another issue; I'm talking about killing someone from your own civilization).  But then, on the other hand, you have traditions of ritual human sacrifice stretching far back in time.  If the killing of another member of your civilization is inherently wrong (as a transgression against another human being), how come so many cultures worked it into their religious practices?

I think I've expressed myself well enough to leave the topic alone now.  I'm just trying to point out that what's right and wrong, even on issues we see as fundamental human rights, is totally culturally subjective.  Within a community, we can make sure these things are clearly delineated; the Growery by consensus sees child porn as reprehensible, and flaming as a good amusing pasttime.  We're all on essentially the same page; that doesn't mean that any independently developing community needs to agree with us.

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kidaihuan said:
I'm going to go right out there and say this.

Although I am for freedoms, I am not a pedophile.

I don't have time to go in depth right now and reply to the whole thread, but I'm just going to say thanks to those who sided with me - both those thinking that I was a pedo and those who knew otherwise.

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